Thursday, May 31, 2007

It's time for more talk on Mormonism by someone with the courage to quote my father (and have me as a guest) . . . so tune in this afternoon to KKLA's Frank Pastore Show* (4:00-7:00 pm PDT) for another fascinating discussion. You can also listen here:

Should be interesting . . .

For my Los Angeles friends listening in today, here's some more information:

Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism

1. Mormons can become gods and goddesses.

2. Goddesses will spend eternity in full submission to their god-husband.

3. Mormon women will give birth “forever and ever” to spirit-babies.

4. Mormon men can have multiple wives in heaven—eternal polygamy.

5. Heavenly Father is an exalted man who lives with his goddess wife, Heavenly Mother, on a planet near the great star Kolob.

6. American Indians are descendants of the wicked Lamanites, who were Israelites that God cursed with dark skin.

7. God the Father had sex with Mary to conceive Jesus, who is the half brother of Lucifer.

8. All Christian churches are an abomination.

9. Mormons need 4 secret handshakes to get into the Celestial heaven.

10. Joseph Smith revealed that the actual Garden of Eden is in Jackson County, Missouri.

[1] Journal of Discourses 1:50-51; J of D 8:115; Doctrine and Covenants Section 132:20

[2] Doctrine and Covenants 84:33-9; Goddesses are always subject to a god. Women are denied the Priesthood (meaning they are denied authority—not the same as Catholic priesthood). “In the LDS universe, theologically described as the real eternal universe, each man who achieves the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom is worth many times more than each woman, even the women who qualify at that highest Celestial level, because each man who achieves Godhood-level may have numerous God-wives, but each God-wife may have only one husband. This can only mean that each "heavenly father" is worth many times more than each "heavenly mother." And, even if the ratio were strictly one to one, the male God, not the female God, holds the priesthood authority and is the only one of the God parents to whom his earth-mortality children are allowed to pray. So Mormon women can never, NEVER achieve equality with men, no matter how outstanding or righteous the women are. That's just the way it's set up." MORMON WOMEN, PROZAC® and THERAPY By Kent Ponder, Ph.D. e-mail address:

[3] LDS Apostle Orson Pratt wrote, “Each father and mother will be in the condition to multiply forever and ever” (The Seer, 37).

[4] Doctrine and Covenants 132; Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 11:269; Men can still be sealed for eternity (not time) to women other than their wives; “The practice of polygamy has been discontinued, but the doctrine of polygamy has never been revoked. D&C 132 is still part of the LDS canon. And some current church practices are still based on polygamous principles.” See pro-Mormon site (accessed February 25, 2007).

[5] Pearl of Great Price, Abraham 3:2-4, 9; J of D, 26:214.

[6] Book of Mormon: Alma 3:6-19; 3 Nephi 2:14-15; Enos 1:20; J of D, 7: 290-291.

[7] Journal of Discourses 8: 116; J of D 8: 211; J of D 8: 115; Mormon Doctrine p.546-547.

[8] Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith—History 1:19. Smith claimed God sent him to “restore” true Christianity.

[9] Celestial Kingdom is the highest of 3 levels in the Mormon heaven (need handshakes to get past the angel guarding the veil); See ex-Mormon site (accessed February 25, 2007); David John Buerger, The Mysteries of Godliness: A History of Mormon Temple Worship, (accessed February 25, 2007).

[10] Doctrine and Covenants 116; Journal of Discourses, 10:235; Smith named the Spring Hill, Daviess County, Missouri area Adam-Ondi-Ahman.

Also see my answer to Richard Mouw's negative comments on Walter Martin:

And then there's:

10 More Amazing Facts of Mormonism

1. Jesus is a polygamist and the father of many children.

2. The God of the Protestants and Catholics is “a monster.”

3. Joseph Smith did a greater work than Jesus Christ.

4. All beliefs that deny Joseph Smith as a prophet of God are “of Antichrist.”

5. Jesus was not conceived by the Holy Spirit.

*Talk Show of the Year - National Religious Broadcasters, 2006


JohnD said...

Hi Jill.

Great post.

One thing... not that I concur with LDS on this, but Matthew 1:18 is one of those texts that must not be isolated to incite doctrine (like those who do passages like Mark 16:18 i.e. the snake-charmer sect).

Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Clearly there is a distinction between the Father and the Holy Spirit (Ghost)... John 14:26 for example. One does not send one's self.

And it is clear that Jesus never referred to the Holy Spirit as "Father."

Gennao (conceived / begotten) is in the passive aorist and in context with the rest of scripture would indicate its definition of bringing forth or being delivered (Strong's number 1080).

Neither is the attendant theory valid. The Holy Spirit moved upon the virgin (essentially miraculously planting the Holy Embryo in her womb). The Holy Spirit was actually carrying out his first mission as the Angel of the Lord (the office which the preincarnate Jesus had previously occupied). Angel = sent one.

Clearly the Father begot the Son:

Hebrews 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not,

>> but a body hast thou prepared me: <<

6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,)

>> to do thy will, O God. <<

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended

>>to my Father:<<

but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend

>>>unto my Father,<<<

and your Father; and

>>>to my God,<<<

and your God.

To sum up, The Father created the body (incarnation) of the Son. See also John 1:14 (the only thing the Father actually created {Jesus created everything else that was created John 1:3, Colossians 1:16}). Jesus submitted to the incarnation (Hebrews 10:7-8, John 10:15ff). And the Holy Spirit delivered the incarnation to Mary.

So, in a sense all three Persons of the Godhead participated in the incarnation but the Father alone was the Creator of it.

Perhaps I am only splitting hairs.

9:40 AM  
JohnD said...

The Bible teaches there are unique, distinct ministries carried out by each Person of the Godhead.

Jesus (the Word) is the Creator of all things but the incarnation (John 1:3, Colossians 1:16).

The Holy Spirit is the Author of the Bible (2 Peter 1:20-21).

The Father is the Creator of the incarnation (John 1:14, Hebrews 10:5)

9:43 AM  
Random Guy said...

This post inappropriately phrases beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to make them sound ridiculous.

It's equivalent to saying: "Christians believe a risen Zombie came and let everybody stick their hands into his bloody holes."

The post is a blasphemous, disrespectful and twisted distortion of somebody else's sacred beliefs.

[You'd better post this. Otherwise, you're giving criticism, but not taking it. Christ and the Apostle Paul disputed and actually answered their critics' questions.]

8:52 PM  
JohnD said...

gee random, you are pretty unspecific in your charges. Care to debate what LDS teaches? Jill's post essentially only quoted Mormon sources on what Mormons teach. If it sounds fishy to you, then maybe you'd better reconsider LDS...

Don't fall into the trap "it's true because I believe it's true..." People have jumped off of skyscrapers because they believed it was true they could fly like superman.

7:58 AM  
Julianne said...

Fundamentalist Christians do not know what they believe. All they know how to do is criticize others. They are arrogant and judgmental. I feel sorry for them that their life is so negative. They are focused on tearing down others instead of bettering themselves. Actually, they probably feel like they are bettering themselves BY tearing down others, making judgemental comments about things they know nothing about. Fundamentalist Christians ARE their own GOD, believing the distorted creations in their own minds - totally ignoring reality. Fundamentalist Christians DO EXACTLY what they so LOUDLY and OBNOXIOUSLY and DESTRUCTIVELY accuse others of doing. Period. Fundamentalist Christians need to look at their own behavior and stop being so mean to others. You have huge boundary issues and you violate others with your lies.

11:30 AM  
Julianne said...

Oh, and btw, I'm sure the blog master will not publish my comment. Honesty is something bigots can't handle.

11:31 AM  

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