Calling evolution "theistic" dosen't make it true.

[alanmolstad]

So nothing about Genesis 6 listing "The Sons of God, and the "Giants" have anything at all to do with angels?

Nope....when you read the whole account you will clearly see that genesis 6 is simply continuing the same story as started in Genesis 3 ,4,and 5.

Nothing here is about angel babies...LOL

[alanmolstad]

So nothing about Genesis 6 listing "The Sons of God, and the "Giants" have anything at all to do with angels?

Nope....when you read the whole account you will clearly see that genesis 6 is simply continuing the same story as started in Genesis 3 ,4,and 5.

Nothing here is about angel babies...LOL

[alanmolstad]

How can we be sure the "darkness" talked about at *** 38 is the very same "darkness" talked about at Genesis 1?

The introduction to that time in *** 38 is said to have happend when God laid the "foundations" ....this only happened once in history,and that is the very same time that is also talked about in Genesis.
So this does mean that the "darkness" of *** 38 is the very same "Darkness" of Genesis 1.

[alanmolstad]

Does not the order of Life as listed in Genesis disagree totally with the way Evolution has the order of the rise of Life?

You have to remember that when you are reading the bible and dealing with something the writer of Genesis is talking about happening in the water on Day 5 it does NOT mean that nothing at all was happening on the land at the same time.

All we read about going on at the 5th day is the things the writer choose to tell us about, not everything.

The writer has a style where he talks about the air, then the water, then the land, all in the context of a 7-day workweek.
My guess is this was just to help people remember the story better.

But the fact is, we can not ***ume for one moment that just because we are "told" something was happening in the sea that this means nothing at all was going on at the very same moment on the land...

All we can know for sure is what we read, and what we read is only what the writer wanted to tell us.....
So this naturally means that while we might be told one thing, there is no reason at all not to also keep in mind that lots of other things were also going on too at the same time!

Its just like the fact that we are "told" a few of the things that Jesus said while He walked the earth, but we are not told "everything" he said while with us.

What we are told, is true, but its not "all"

So what we are left with for sure, is not so much an order that we can believe is as much chronological as it is clearly an order in importance.
Starting with gr***...then on to trees, to fish and stuff in the sea,and then finally to land animals and ending with the creation of man.

Its clearly a ranking in importance.

[alanmolstad]

Doesn't the Hebrew word "yom" always mean just a 24 hour day?

no.

[alanmolstad]

Doesn't the Hebrew word "yom" always mean just a 24 hour day when used with a number like in Genesis?

no.

[alanmolstad]

Doesn't the Hebrew word "yom" always mean just a 24 hour day, when used with the phrase "evening and morning?"

no.

[alanmolstad]

what about the footprints of a man walking with a dinosaur's found in Texas?

The human footprints were faked.

[alanmolstad]

Did NASA find enough moon dust to account for a history of several million years?

yes, NASA found exactly the amount of dust on the moon to account for a history of millions if not billions of years.

[alanmolstad]

At genesis 1:2 "The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was[fn] on the face of the deep" what does the term "without form" mean?

It's talking about the same thing you would notice if you were on a dark foggy road, and you heard a large truck approaching you out of the fog.
You know the truck is real, you know it getting close to you, but as of yet due to the fog the truck is "without form"

You know its real and its there,,,but you cant really describe it in more detail yet

[alanmolstad]

At genesis 1:2 "The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was[fn] on the face of the deep" what does the term"void" mean?

No people.
Its the same context as when you walk into a large hall filled with empty seats.
The room might be empty at that moment, but it is designed to be filled with people.
Its the same concept here with the word "void", where the world lacks people but is designed to be filled with people.

[alanmolstad]

Barring any questions, I will continue tomorrow to help the Bible student deal with many of the most common issues that come up in a Genesis Bible Study, by posting some short easy to understand answers.

[jude1:3]

This thread has turned into Alan's Personal Journal of Run on Sentences.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by jude1:3

This thread has turned into Alan's Personal Journal of Run on Sentences.

check post number #45
Im just doing what I said I would do if I found that none knew how to open their bibles up...

[jude1:3]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

check post number #45
Im just doing what I said I would do if I found that none knew how to open their bibles up...

No one agrees with you on this topic Alan. You're a one man show on this particular topic.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by jude1:3

No one agrees with you on this topic Alan. You're a one man show on this particular topic.

What is clear is that no one dares, "dis"agree with me.
Thats much is very clear.
From what I have seen I have yet to be much impressed with the ability of any believer in the YEC teachings to handle the Scriptures.


No one dares pick up their Bible and try to see if what Im saying is true.

Rather,what I see is the typical response I have seen before, namely that people attack the messenger when they cant stand against the message.
But that is to be expected in that the YEC are not based on the Bible.

On the other hand all that I am now teaching is based on the Bible.
If I say something is in the bible,I will give you chapter and verse to go find it.
I invite people to checkout the Text that I list to see if what iIm saying is truly found there?

When I teach that God made the "Heavens " first, I list the verse that proves this.

When I say that God made the earth as a dry/dead world that was later covered with water, I list the text to support this.

When I say that there is no ending to the 7th day unlike all the other 6 days, I prove this with the text.

When I teach that both humans and animals are from the same source and that this agrees with evolution, I point out this fact with the text of the Bible.

When I say I know why the earth was in "darkness"at the start of the Genesis story even though the sun was already created, I point to the verse that tells us this reason why.

When I point out that at no place in the Genesis story do we read of an anti-evolution argument, I go over the whole Genesis text, verse by verse to show this is true.


over the last few pages of this topic Ihave given short answers to many of the common questions people dealwith when talking about the Genesis -evolution topic,and I can support every answer I give with a verse in the Bible.
And that is why no believer in the YEC lie seems to want to challenge anything I say.
For they know they will lose,

it's finally brought home how out of gas the YEC argument is.



But as for me?...Im just getting started!

I got many, many more things I like to bring up that point out the real weakness in the YEC position,
I also want to dig a bit deeper into the whole approach to the story of Genesis, and how to read it from start to finish, and see how it does in fact, work hand-in-hand with evolution.

[MichaellS]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

What is clear is that no one dares, "dis"agree with me.
Thats much is very clear.
From what I have seen I have yet to be much impressed with the ability of any believer in the YEC teachings to handle the Scriptures.


No one dares pick up their Bible and try to see if what Im saying is true.

Rather,what I see is the typical response I have seen before, namely that people attack the messenger when they cant stand against the message.
But that is to be expected in that the YEC are not based on the Bible.

On the other hand all that I am now teaching is based on the Bible.
If I say something is in the bible,I will give you chapter and verse to go find it.
I invite people to checkout the Text that I list to see if what iIm saying is truly found there?

When I teach that God made the "Heavens " first, I list the verse that proves this.

When I say that God made the earth as a dry/dead world that was later covered with water, I list the text to support this.

When I say that there is no ending to the 7th day unlike all the other 6 days, I prove this with the text.

When I teach that both humans and animals are from the same source and that this agrees with evolution, I point out this fact with the text of the Bible.

When I say I know why the earth was in "darkness"at the start of the Genesis story even though the sun was already created, I point to the verse that tells us this reason why.

When I point out that at no place in the Genesis story do we read of an anti-evolution argument, I go over the whole Genesis text, verse by verse to show this is true.


over the last few pages of this topic Ihave given short answers to many of the common questions people dealwith when talking about the Genesis -evolution topic,and I can support every answer I give with a verse in the Bible.
And that is why no believer in the YEC lie seems to want to challenge anything I say.
For they know they will lose,

it's finally brought home how out of gas the YEC argument is.



But as for me?...Im just getting started!

I got many, many more things I like to bring up that point out the real weakness in the YEC position,
I also want to dig a bit deeper into the whole approach to the story of Genesis, and how to read it from start to finish, and see how it does in fact, work hand-in-hand with evolution.

Ignore this also. What this whole thing boils down to, not only are we to ask what is it that rises above our opinion pro and con?

Answer – The word of God

But more importantly, what within the word of God makes all else heel?

Hello? Maybe I should repeat that,

What within the word of God makes all else heel?

[jude1:3]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

What is clear is that no one dares, "dis"agree with me.
Thats much is very clear.
From what I have seen I have yet to be much impressed with the ability of any believer in the YEC teachings to handle the Scriptures.


No one dares pick up their Bible and try to see if what Im saying is true.

Rather,what I see is the typical response I have seen before, namely that people attack the messenger when they cant stand against the message.
But that is to be expected in that the YEC are not based on the Bible.

On the other hand all that I am now teaching is based on the Bible.
If I say something is in the bible,I will give you chapter and verse to go find it.
I invite people to checkout the Text that I list to see if what iIm saying is truly found there?

When I teach that God made the "Heavens " first, I list the verse that proves this.

When I say that God made the earth as a dry/dead world that was later covered with water, I list the text to support this.

When I say that there is no ending to the 7th day unlike all the other 6 days, I prove this with the text.

When I teach that both humans and animals are from the same source and that this agrees with evolution, I point out this fact with the text of the Bible.

When I say I know why the earth was in "darkness"at the start of the Genesis story even though the sun was already created, I point to the verse that tells us this reason why.

When I point out that at no place in the Genesis story do we read of an anti-evolution argument, I go over the whole Genesis text, verse by verse to show this is true.


over the last few pages of this topic Ihave given short answers to many of the common questions people dealwith when talking about the Genesis -evolution topic,and I can support every answer I give with a verse in the Bible.
And that is why no believer in the YEC lie seems to want to challenge anything I say.
For they know they will lose,

it's finally brought home how out of gas the YEC argument is.



But as for me?...Im just getting started!

I got many, many more things I like to bring up that point out the real weakness in the YEC position,
I also want to dig a bit deeper into the whole approach to the story of Genesis, and how to read it from start to finish, and see how it does in fact, work hand-in-hand with evolution.

Giant Wall of Text that doesn't really say anything.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by MichaellS

[FONT=Arial Narrow][SIZE=4]Ignore this also. What this whole thing boils down to, not only are we to ask what is it that rises above our opinion pro and con?

Answer – The word of God

The YEC position is that God created "light" before he created a source for that light.

The YEC position is that God created light from the stars "in transit"and that the starlight we see at night never actually had anything to really do with a star...(but was made to look like it was from a star.)

The YEC position is that the 7th day has ended.


Be my guest, and support such positions with only this "Word of God" that you claim so highly....









As you have seen, my position is vastly different.

I teach that God created stars like our own sun first, in harmony with the teachings of modern science that also hold that the stars and the stuff in space were created first in the big bang.

I teach that the light from stars is as it appears to be.
That the universe was not designed as a big fat lie.
That you can trust the universe because the same God made the universe also wrote our Bible...so they both reflect the hand of the Lord.

I teach that you can search from one end of the bible to the other and not find a verse that tells us that the 7th day of the creation week has ended ....yet.







This is just a small sampling of where the things I have taught are in complete disagreement with the teachings of YEC.
Feel free to disagree with me all you want, but unless you can point to chapter and verse to back up your views, I will continue to ignore them as being baseless...

[alanmolstad]

anytime anyone wants to pickup there Bible and back up what they believe about genesis?........




Oh thats right, you can't.......

[jude1:3]

Just so you know Alan, I'm not trying to be a **** or anything. I just strongly disagree with your stance and I wish you didn't believe in evolution.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

anytime anyone wants to pickup there Bible and back up what they believe about genesis?........




Oh thats right, you can't.......

I bet they want to though.

I bet that the minute I popped-off with a bunch of my Bible verses that prove YEC is a lie they actually did grab their Bible and started to look at the verses I listed for a way to prove me wrong.

Only to then find out the awful truth, "Alan is right"

That had to sting......

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by jude1:3

Just so you know Alan, I'm not trying to be a **** or anything. I just strongly disagree with your stance and I wish you didn't believe in evolution.

all I see is a lack of people willing to open their Bibles and search the story of Genesis for truth.

all I see is a willingness to only side-step the issues I raise in an effort to change the topic away from what the Bible teaches, and to be more about me as a person.


Well.....I dont play that game.
I dont come here to listen to personal advice.
I dont give a rat's pa-toot about what people wish....

Im only interested in what the Bble teaches in black and white>

I only pay attention to posted comments that are about the topic of Genesis and Evolution....and even then I look for arguments that are based solely on Scripture and I totally disregard people's personal ideas about what Evolution means to them.

I don't give a rip about how much people hate evolution, nor do I give a rip if they have just tons and tons of reasons why they don't believe it evolution....Im not here to teach or defend evolution.

I only care what the Bible says.....end of story.



So if you want me to change my views on Genesis?...fine, then pick up your bible and prove your teachings of YEC are found there.....



But like I said, you wont, cuz you can't.

All that we call the "Young Earth Creationism" is not taken from the Bible, rather its a work of fiction. (most all YEC textbooks and websites are based only on the work of a guy named Henry Morris) ....YEC like the Book of Mormon, is a fiction.

[alanmolstad]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

(most all YEC textbooks and websites are based only on the work of a guy named Henry Morris) .

The idea that all the newer books and websites that support the YEC are just a re-hashing of the work of Henry Morris is not my idea.
I would not know this is true or not.

I had to learn this when I was talking one-on-one with Ken Ham ( world's leading YEC teacher at the time)

What Ken Ham told me was that most all the things we read in YEC books is all based on the work of Morris.

Ken also told me that all the people in the YEC teaching community are just re-working the work of Morris, and that the few new things that people are adding now to the body of YEC teachings found in YEC books, (Things like the moon-dust arguments, and the footprint evidences) are things that later turnout to be not as sure as people thought.

Ken told me personally that the work of Morris is sorta the "Bible" for the Creationists.

[jude1:3]

Originally Posted by alanmolstad

[B]

I totally disregard people's personal ideas about what Evolution means to them.

That's the thing though, All you are doing is pushing Your Opinion. Nothing More.