The Logos (As I understand it)

[sayso]

Originally Posted by GateKeeper

Did John lie?

1Jn 4:12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.
1Jn 4:13 By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit.
1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
1Jn 4:15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
1Jn 4:16 So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.

Scripture CLEARLY tells us that no one has EVER seen God. Jesus was God's Son. This is what He claimed to be, so I'll take Him at His word.

GK

Sorry friend,

You are grasping at straws. You couldn't dispute one of the scriptures I gave you and so you list a few verses (out of context) which you believe supports your view. John was clearly speaking of and to mortal men which Jesus isn't.


The same John that you quote also wrote this in his Gospel of John concerning the things Jesus said and did.

John 6:45-47

41 Therefore the Jews were grumbling about Him, because He said, "I am the bread that came down out of heaven."

42 They were saying, "Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does He now say, 'I have come down out of heaven'?"



43 Jesus answered and said to them, "Do not grumble among yourselves.



44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

45 "It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

46 "Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.



47" Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.





Those who want eternal life must believe Jesus' message. He told us that He was sent/came down from heaven. He told us that He came from the Father. He told us that He is IN the Father and the Father is IN Him. He never ever suggested that He didn't exist from the beginning of time. He never suggested that He was created by the Father. He said that the ONE Who is from God, has seen the Father.

Colossians 2

6 Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,


7 having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gra***ude.


8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,



This last verse means just what it implies. Jesus was/is God living in bodily form. The Father, Jesus (the Son), and the Holy Spirit are all ONE living IN one another.

I have received Christ Jesus the Lord and His Spirit lives in me. But I am not in the Father or in Jesus or in the Holy Spirit because I am a mortal person. Jesus is the ONLY ONE who has ever been IN the Father because He is DEITY.

[GateKeeper]

Originally Posted by sayso

[COLOR=Blue]Sorry friend,

You are grasping at straws. You couldn't dispute one of the scriptures I gave you and so you list a few verses (out of context) which you believe supports your view. John was clearly speaking of and to mortal men which Jesus isn't.

Did you read my posts? Grasping as straws? John tells us that no one has ever seen God. Jesus outright claimed to be the son of God (Which I do believe) and NEVER claimed to be God Himself. I believe the fullness of God dwelt in Him, but that fullness was of God's Spirit, or Word ~ Not the totality of His being. This makes sense being that Jesus was conceived by the Spirit. He grew in the spirit/wisdom, and was "filled" with the truth. (The Spirit is truth 1 John 5) Also, Jesus was not immortal, He died as I recall, but was raised from the grave. He is God's son, and our savior. I don't need to add things in order make Him into God Himself, or to fit a particular theology, or doctrine.

Btw, if you think me here to debate the issue, you are wrong. I simply posted my views so you fine people would know where I stand, and my personal convictions. Your grasping at straws comment leads to believe that you are wanting to argue this matter. I'll give my views, but when argument ensues I will depart from you.

GK

[sayso]

Originally Posted by GateKeeper

Did you read my posts? Grasping as straws? John tells us that no one has ever seen God. Jesus outright claimed to be the son of God (Which I do believe) and NEVER claimed to be God Himself. I believe the fullness of God dwelt in Him, but that fullness was of God's Spirit, or Word ~ Not the totality of His being. This makes sense being that Jesus was conceived by the Spirit. He grew in the spirit/wisdom, and was "filled" with the truth. (The Spirit is truth 1 John 5) Also, Jesus was not immortal, He died as I recall, but was raised from the grave. He is God's son, and our savior. I don't need to add things in order make Him into God Himself, or to fit a particular theology, or doctrine.

Btw, if you think me here to debate the issue, you are wrong. I simply posted my views so you fine people would know where I stand, and my personal convictions. Your grasping at straws comment leads to believe that you are wanting to argue this matter. I'll give my views, but when argument ensues I will depart from you.

GK

Yes I've read that p***age of verses many times. And I explained to you why John wasn't speaking of Jesus when he wrote those verses.

What you believe is up to you. I simply gave another view of the logos, Is Jesus God. My view is that He is and I gave the proof of Jesus Himself saying He is from the Bible to support my view.

You then answered back and said that the Bible "CLEARLY" states that your belief is the correct view. I disagree. So it is ok for you to disagree with others but they can't disagree with you?

[GateKeeper]

Originally Posted by sayso

Yes I've read that p***age of verses many times. And I explained to you why John wasn't speaking of Jesus when he wrote those verses.

What you believe is up to you. I simply gave another view of the logos, Is Jesus God. My view is that He is and I gave the proof of Jesus Himself saying He is from the Bible to support my view.

You then answered back and said that the Bible "CLEARLY" states that your belief is the correct view. I disagree. So it is ok for you to disagree with others but they can't disagree with you?

With all due respect, I said scripture CLEARLY tells us that no one has ever seen God, and that Jesus claimed to be God's son, which is what I myself believe. You believe scripture supports your view, while I believe scripture supports my own. This is an age old debate, and will never be resolved. It is simply pointless to argue the matter, as the debate has no end. Now if you believe one must believe Jesus is G-d to be saved, we have another issue to tackle altogether, lol.

Blessings

GK